Comments on: The Eventual Death of The Problem of Evil http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/ From Words to Blows Mon, 05 Oct 2009 11:05:31 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: irishanglican http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-565 irishanglican Wed, 07 May 2008 21:09:38 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-565 In the end, evil has no real "ontology". In the end, evil has no real “ontology”.

]]> By: irishanglican http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-564 irishanglican Wed, 07 May 2008 21:02:11 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-564 Evil, in my Christian presupposition, is always as the Orthodox say, negation. Though it is rebellion and hatred, it cannot stand the "light" of God's love and moral power. Thus evil is its own error and deviation... and must finally run away and end in negation and final denial! Evil, in my Christian presupposition, is always as the Orthodox say, negation. Though it is rebellion and hatred, it cannot stand the “light” of God’s love and moral power. Thus evil is its own error and deviation… and must finally run away and end in negation and final denial!

]]> By: irishanglican http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-563 irishanglican Wed, 07 May 2008 20:42:32 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-563 Sorry for me, philosophy is always a handmaiden for any Judeo-Christian truth. Sorry for me, philosophy is always a handmaiden for any Judeo-Christian truth.

]]> By: john http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-562 john Wed, 07 May 2008 20:38:56 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-562 I see. That is interesting, and requires some thought. I will ponder that concept some more and see how this could be used in how I am attepting to argue contra the problem of evil. I see. That is interesting, and requires some thought. I will ponder that concept some more and see how this could be used in how I am attepting to argue contra the problem of evil.

]]> By: irishanglican http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-561 irishanglican Wed, 07 May 2008 20:32:42 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-561 John, In a Christian philosophy, God can only "actualize" the human spirit and soul. From the place of His demands and moral law. Each human being is responsible from that place within, alone between God and the person...I/thou! Martin Bubers work here is both philosophical and Judeo-Christian...Personalism. John,
In a Christian philosophy, God can only “actualize” the human spirit and soul. From the place of His demands and moral law. Each human being is responsible from that place within, alone between God and the person…I/thou! Martin Bubers work here is both philosophical and Judeo-Christian…Personalism.

]]> By: john http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-560 john Wed, 07 May 2008 20:16:37 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-560 Clark, thanks for the comment :). I agree with you that we could add such a premise, but that premise will need some supporting. What would you say to support it? Clark,
thanks for the comment :) . I agree with you that we could add such a premise, but that premise will need some supporting. What would you say to support it?

]]> By: john http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-559 john Wed, 07 May 2008 20:14:28 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-559 Irishanglican, That is intresting, but doesn't God actualize certian states of affairs that allow for moral agency? Irishanglican,
That is intresting, but doesn’t God actualize certian states of affairs that allow for moral agency?

]]> By: irishanglican http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-558 irishanglican Wed, 07 May 2008 01:04:04 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-558 This is not deism. This is not deism.

]]> By: irishanglican http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-557 irishanglican Wed, 07 May 2008 01:00:54 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-557 We don't create moral or free agency, but we are created in it, to act from it. It is still part of God's gift and theism. Thus this is the premise, that we are created BY God, moral and able agents. We don’t create moral or free agency, but we are created in it, to act from it. It is still part of God’s gift and theism. Thus this is the premise, that we are created BY God, moral and able agents.

]]> By: Clark http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-556 Clark Tue, 06 May 2008 22:20:46 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-556 Can't we just add the premise that it is good to create free agents? Can’t we just add the premise that it is good to create free agents?

]]> By: ReasonableCitizen http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-555 ReasonableCitizen Tue, 06 May 2008 12:06:05 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-555 I understand what you are saying now. Thanks for the kindness of your reply. I hope you are successful in your quest. I understand what you are saying now. Thanks for the kindness of your reply.
I hope you are successful in your quest.

]]> By: The problem of evil and modality « Praeter Necessitatum http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-554 The problem of evil and modality « Praeter Necessitatum Tue, 06 May 2008 04:18:06 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-554 [...] at Weber, has a nice post with some follow-up commentary on the problem of evil and modality (here). His work on the problem of evil has been developing swimmingly well, and I strongly encourage you [...] [...] at Weber, has a nice post with some follow-up commentary on the problem of evil and modality (here). His work on the problem of evil has been developing swimmingly well, and I strongly encourage you [...]

]]> By: john http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-552 john Mon, 05 May 2008 20:45:53 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-552 Good and Evil are not the subjects of discussion as put. I don't attempt to argue for why evil and good are compatible. Moreover, I aim to avoid linguistic games. My concern is, as irishanglican has pointed out, is theism. The problem for Christians is that if there is an omni benevolent God that is all-powerful, then there must be some good reason why he would allow evil. If there is no good reason, then why should we assume that God is all-good, all-powerful, or even exists. This problem is the cornerstone of most atheistic claims. So, the focus isn't on the good/evil dichotomy, but rather, how can the existence of God and of evil be compatible. Good and Evil are not the subjects of discussion as put. I don’t attempt to argue for why evil and good are compatible. Moreover, I aim to avoid linguistic games. My concern is, as irishanglican has pointed out, is theism. The problem for Christians is that if there is an omni benevolent God that is all-powerful, then there must be some good reason why he would allow evil. If there is no good reason, then why should we assume that God is all-good, all-powerful, or even exists. This problem is the cornerstone of most atheistic claims. So, the focus isn’t on the good/evil dichotomy, but rather, how can the existence of God and of evil be compatible.

]]> By: irishanglican http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-551 irishanglican Mon, 05 May 2008 03:57:48 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-551 I think? lol I think? lol

]]> By: irishanglican http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-550 irishanglican Mon, 05 May 2008 03:45:44 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-550 ReasonableCitizen. It is called Theism and he is working on theodicy. In a Christian worldview. ReasonableCitizen. It is called Theism and he is working on theodicy. In a Christian worldview.

]]> By: ReasonableCitizen http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-549 ReasonableCitizen Mon, 05 May 2008 03:25:34 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-549 I do not understand your quest. There is sunshine and there is rain. One obscures the other at times and yet both exist in the world. To establish a logical argument that God can exist and 'Satan can exist as a result of God's existence' has no value that I can discern. It is like saying that rain can exist because of the sunshine. Ok. One more thought and I will bow out: when developing your argument, if you use the word 'God' to identify a personage , should you not also use the word Satan to describe the other personage rather than the word 'Evil'? Or do you think Evil is a 'thing' like rain and sunshine? I get confused by the use of 'God and Evil' rather than 'GOOD and EVIL' or 'God and Satan'. I do not understand your quest.

There is sunshine and there is rain. One obscures the other at times and yet both exist in the world.
To establish a logical argument that God can exist and ‘Satan can exist as a result of God’s existence’ has no value that I can discern. It is like saying that rain can exist because of the sunshine. Ok.
One more thought and I will bow out: when developing your argument, if you use the word ‘God’ to identify a personage , should you not also use the word Satan to describe the other personage rather than the word ‘Evil’? Or do you think Evil is a ‘thing’ like rain and sunshine?
I get confused by the use of ‘God and Evil’ rather than ‘GOOD and EVIL’ or ‘God and Satan’.

]]> By: john http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-547 john Sat, 03 May 2008 23:00:08 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-547 There, I think, are many different types of evil. The philosophical problem of evil is concerned with both moral and natural evil. My focus here is to address the logical problem of evil. This 'version' consist of the conjunction of the following premisies: 1) God is all-good (and all-powerful) 2) Evil exist This is a big 'problem' for the thiest. Evil does exists we can't easily deny that. We also can't easly deny that God exists. So, we need to come up with some type of "iron clad" proposition to calm the inconsistency of (1-2). I don't know, however, if this will be an easy thing to do because of how bold the athiest are in their positions and ideas of life, Diety, etc...so, for those reason all input is welcomed. thank you, john There, I think, are many different types of evil. The philosophical problem of evil is concerned with both moral and natural evil. My focus here is to address the logical problem of evil. This ‘version’ consist of the conjunction of the following premisies:
1) God is all-good (and all-powerful)
2) Evil exist
This is a big ‘problem’ for the thiest. Evil does exists we can’t easily deny that. We also can’t easly deny that God exists. So, we need to come up with some type of “iron clad” proposition to calm the inconsistency of (1-2).
I don’t know, however, if this will be an easy thing to do because of how bold the athiest are in their positions and ideas of life, Diety, etc…so, for those reason all input is welcomed.
thank you,
john

]]> By: irishanglican http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-546 irishanglican Fri, 02 May 2008 21:11:52 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-546 "one of your best.." brain fade “one of your best..” brain fade

]]> By: irishanglican http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-545 irishanglican Fri, 02 May 2008 21:10:31 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-545 "Evil is most emphatically not a mere absence. It is precisely a "presence": the presence of something dark, irrational and very real...Thus hated is not a simple absence of love; it is the presence of a dark power which can indeed be extremely active, clever and even creative. And it is certainly not a result of ignorance. We may know and hate. The more some men knew Christ, saw His light and goodness, the more they hated Him. This experience of evil as irrational power, as something which truly takes possession of us and directs our acts, has always been the experience of the Church and the experience also of all those who try, be it only a little, to "better" themselves, to oppose "nature" in themselves, to ascend to a more spiritual life. Our first affirmation then is that there exists a demonic "reality" : evil as a dark power, as presence and not only absence." ~ Fr. Alexander Schmemmann, Orthodox priest * I thought you might like this? He has more, he is perhaps you of the best writers, thinkers on this profound subject! Maybe outside your work perhaps? But still very interesting I think. By the way, I am an Anglican rector myself, but both catholic and evangelical. And certain reformed, but more under the Anglican Thirty Nine Articles. Fr. Robert +++ “Evil is most emphatically not a mere absence. It is precisely a “presence”: the presence of something dark, irrational and very real…Thus hated is not a simple absence of love; it is the presence of a dark power which can indeed be extremely active, clever and even creative. And it is certainly not a result of ignorance. We may know and hate. The more some men knew Christ, saw His light and goodness, the more they hated Him. This experience of evil as irrational power, as something which truly takes possession of us and directs our acts, has always been the experience of the Church and the experience also of all those who try, be it only a little, to “better” themselves, to oppose “nature” in themselves, to ascend to a more spiritual life.
Our first affirmation then is that there exists a demonic “reality” : evil as a dark power, as presence and not only absence.” ~ Fr. Alexander Schmemmann, Orthodox priest
* I thought you might like this? He has more, he is perhaps you of the best writers, thinkers on this profound subject! Maybe outside your work perhaps? But still very interesting I think. By the way, I am an Anglican rector myself, but both catholic and evangelical. And certain reformed, but more under the Anglican Thirty Nine Articles.
Fr. Robert +++

]]> By: ReasonableCitizen http://verbis.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/the-eventual-death-of-the-problem-of-evil/#comment-544 ReasonableCitizen Fri, 02 May 2008 20:11:00 +0000 http://verbis.wordpress.com/?p=59#comment-544 I enjoyed your post and wish you well. First, though , a definition of Evil is in order. What have you come up with? Second, what is the Problem of Evil? You say "of" Evil and not Problem "with" Evil. Should I assume that your definition of Evil is a 'natural evil' in that it exists 'in and of itself ', kind of like air? After reading "Evil in Modern Thought" by Susan Nieman, I came to the conclusion that Evil does not apply to any natural disaster or random event. Evil is a result of Man's level of maleficence, malice and morality. I use these descriptions: Malice is your intent or plan to harm others with action or inaction. Maleficence is your use of force to carry out that intent or plan. Morality is the acceptance/unacceptance of your actions by others and yourself. If you are interested, I can send you some of my early thoughts on Evil. Reply back by email and I will send them. I was working on a Scale of Evil that would permit an understanding of the magnitude of Evil committed by Man. I took it to a point and then became disinterested. Let me know if you have any interest. I enjoyed your post and wish you well. First, though , a definition of Evil is in order. What have you come up with?
Second, what is the Problem of Evil? You say “of” Evil and not Problem “with” Evil. Should I assume that your definition of Evil is a ‘natural evil’ in that it exists ‘in and of itself ‘, kind of like air?
After reading “Evil in Modern Thought” by Susan Nieman, I came to the conclusion that Evil does not apply to any natural disaster or random event. Evil is a result of Man’s level of maleficence, malice and morality.
I use these descriptions:
Malice is your intent or plan to harm others with action or inaction.
Maleficence is your use of force to carry out that intent or plan.
Morality is the acceptance/unacceptance of your actions by others and yourself.
If you are interested, I can send you some of my early thoughts on Evil. Reply back by email and I will send them. I was working on a Scale of Evil that would permit an understanding of the magnitude of Evil committed by Man. I took it to a point and then became disinterested. Let me know if you have any interest.

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